The question I have always wanted to ask about Genesis but was too afraid to ask is this:
What is the Is the underlying technology for Genesis? I understand the teleconferencing standard is now h.323? Is that what Genesis uses?
Phew, glad to have got that off my chest!
Comments
standards
Yes, GENESIS is based on using the H.323 protocol. You aren't required to use the Sony equipment, as you're encouraged to do in the GENESIS schools... the reason for that is ease of support from other GENESIS members. I would strongly encourage you to at least complete a 2-week GENESIS seminar to get the foundation of why the ministry exists. It was so helpful to me.
Blessings,
Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com
GENESIS isn't a Technology
Hi Kevin,
GENESIS is using whatever technology is available to create a global classroom. GENESIS stands for "Global Electronic Network, Educating, Serving and Inspiring Students" and is more a philosophy of that, rather than just a technology. They have a great explanation of the vision of GENESIS at http://www.go-genesis.com/pages/about-us.
The equipment that is used can be h.323 based, and most new locations are now setting up with this, but quite a few GENESIS locations still have ISDN based video conferencing.
Bill Hutchison
Reef to Outback
Philosophy not Technology
Thanks Bill,
I can see that a bit clearer now. I've got to say that in my years in YWAM I have not heard it so clearly expressed as that. Perhaps that is because I have always been at the extremities of YWAM Western Europe! I guess it is like the idea that GENESIS = Video conferencing is the same as the mis-conception that Kings Kids = Sign dancing!
Reading the vision at the link you posted though it does seem like GENESIS has expanded much beyond video-conferencing? There are superb student information course delivery engines now available that Internet technology has enabled, Instant Messaging and (my favourite) Wiki's etc. Are they exploring them? Hope so!
It strikes me that if they don't capitalise on the new technologies and only concentrate on video-conferencing they will rapidly slip behind the curve. After all on our 20Mbp internet link here in Brussels we often have multiple Skype video chats, teleconferences etc. going. Even my parents are into it! what do you think?
cheers,
Kevin
Cheers,
GENESIS
What more can I add?
Part of the founding vision of GENESIS was a challenge to YWAM leadership of how can we maintain the projected growth of our mission and training schools and still retain (or get) the best quality teaching.
Videoconferencing was one of the technologies that enabled our classrooms to have access to the best teaching available as well as release the local to teach the nations. When GENESIS started using ISDN videoconferencing in the mid 1990's we quickly realised that it was not about technology but about Jesus! It has been most interesting to notice that 'technical problems' seem to have spiritual links. Things like international telcom cables getting chopped (dug up) just before class starts, unexplained power cuts, or
unexplained 'random' audio cuts that would coincide with important words from Joy Dawson are all things we have experienced. It just highlights how much we need to cover whatever we do in prayer!
The Base I used to be at (Restenäs) was the first location after Lausanne to have a permanent GENESIS setup - thanks to a generous donation by Loren. As part of re-pioneering the Base there we found GENESIS gave our students access to our foundational speakers - something we could not have dreamed of at the time. The quality was not good and call costs were not cheap. But the main thing was that God came through and our staff and students were able to receive an impartation from our founders and also feel part of the 'bigger picture', and not be isolated in one base / community.
About keeping up with new technologies etc. That is a good point. GENESIS is more of a concept that uses tools. There are many tools available and they all have areas of strengths and weaknesses.
We need to be careful not to create 'north/south' solutions - something that is great for us with 20Mb+ connections and hopeless for developing or isolated nations. Some places dream of even getting DSL, others (like Fiji, New Zealand, S Africa etc) have volume metering on the throughput - more use costs more.
Sometimes you 'get what you pay for' -
Some solutions will not work with big screen projection - to DTS classrooms etc.
Some solutions can work within one hardware or technology (like Skype / iChat etc) but not across systems or technologies.
GENESIS is mostly using H.323 and H.320 videoconferencing which is platform independent. While most of our places use Sony equipment (not the best, but we can understand and offer support for it) others use Polycom, or even PC/Linux/Mac software. The computer based stuff is great for 'one to many' sessions but rather limited if you have big classes.
What comes next? VC is going HD quality but the bandwidth needed is crazy while we use the public internet IP. Maybe holograms will bring your speaker 'into' the classroom :-)
Anyway, the concept of GENESIS still remains as a global electronic network that educates, serves and inspires our students!
Many of us just see 'events' where Genesis staff serve in broadcasting a conference (like UofN workshop) or creating a window for those who cannot attend (like in Herrnhut). That is not really the relational heart of the ministry but using our skills to serve the body, and sometimes when we see that we think that is what it is all about. For my base it creates a wonderful potential to have access to international speakers or to worship and pray with 'family' in another nation every day!
Blessings
Mike
entering from the edges
Thanks Mike,
What you wrote was very interesting. Had I ever the chance to meet you and all the others face to face this would have been what I would have wanted to talk about!
My entry point to YWAM was to a small YWAM base in the South West of England, Torquay to be exact. I was on one of those new fangled Operation Year teams and so my YWAM experience is somewhat different to many of us who entered with 30+ DTS's. I had superb teaching on my year and was able to put it into practice immediately, which is the great strength of the Op Year course. So from my perspective Genesis has been somewhat of a mystery to me as to why it would work and what I would gain from it! As you said it gives the wider YWAM flavour and that would always be nice! However Global Perspectives was good for that too!
I suppose I also have always favoured the Jesus style approach to discipleship - a small group that lived and learnt together over a long time period. That for me was a "best quality teaching" experience!
This discussion is very interesting - my little grey cells are whirring!
Some questions occur to me: What has been the most significant breakthrough in your life that you have experienced in a GENESIS teaching session? How has GENESIS been evaluated as an effective teaching technology? Has it achieved measurable benefits?
In the centre of things
From the 'edges' into the centre... :-)
Maybe you have a short memory Kevin but we did briefly meet face to face in Herrnhut.
Some GENESIS stories / breakthroughs...
The first DTS week I lead with GENESIS was back in '98. We had Loren teaching from Switzerland to a DTS there and to our school in Sweden. I made the mistake of thinking things were going smoothly, left the class to go and check my mail in the office. When I came back I found all the staff and students on the floor under the presence of God! Crash, bang - the Holy Spirit came in a powerful way and I was not there! That was the last time I thought this tool was just another 'babysitter' for the students instead oF a 'live' speaker!
I was part of pioneering GENESIS in Uganda. That meant many visits to the HQ of the telcoms companies to get ISDN lines installed (first time ever in East Africa by any telco!). Many promises etc and when time came for the FCD school to start with 3 months classes together with South Africa they finally admitted they could not get video over the lines. We spent 3 months together as 2 schools (actually 1 school in 2 places) with only an audio link between the classes, and our staff typing live notes onto the projection screen. For us westerners it seemed a disaster, but the students and staff in Jinja, on review at the end of the school, said it was the best experience they ever had!
Our friends in Latvia had felt isolated and forgotten by the West after WW2. When the YWAM team got connected with GENESIS in 1999 they were suddenly 'on the world stage' instead of being in the backwaters.
In 2000 I was at the LTS in New Zealand and we had this '40 years of YWAM, 40 hours of prayer' thingy. We used GENESIS to try to connect to Kona, Norway (another LTS), S Africa India and Latvia (I think it was those places?). We had some worship together etc and when we connected again at the end of the prayer time to get reports from the nations the guys in Latvia reported receiving the exact same words that we had received in New Zealand! They were so encourage to be able to bring fresh words to the global table that were also in line with what God was saying on the other side of the world!
As far as evaluated as a teaching technology..
Living and being together over a long period probably remains as the 'best quality teaching experience' as you say.
Unfortunately we live in a world where that is getting harder and harder to do. Our western societies no longer see extended families as an asset and we have become so 'mobile'.
In our mission, we are getting bigger in numbers (locations and people) and we have seen the danger of losing touch with our foundational values. Part of that has been isolation from those that have carried the vision and identity of who we are (not that other things are wrong, but they are not 'us' and we need to flow in the anointing of who we have been called to be). I believe that GENESIS is one of the tools and concepts that God has given us to help keep us in the big picture and have touch with our 'fathers'.
As a communications medium I guess nothing replaces face to face, in the flesh meetings for interactivity, touch/feel body language etc.
Live video meetings would possibly come next, then audio (as you can still interact somewhat).
Then I guess recorded video / streaming etc, and finally text
GENESIS has also enabled us to do things that would not be possible otherwise.
- Run our first DTS with only 5 students and have the best world class speakers. We kept our budget! (even with 200 hours online / 10 weeks over ISDN at per minute charging)
- Get speakers in our school that we could not get even if we had the money. Sometimes they are so booked ahead. Yet we have had Loren C, Dean Sherman, Paul Hawkins and many other hard to get speakers online. Think - they can teach an hour and still have lunch with their family.
- We could respond to a crisis in Finland where they lost the speaker at last minute. We could provide a teacher in the afternoons from here as well as be involved in our own school in the mornings (different subjects)
- Share our DTS guest speaker with the base in Kiev as a blessing to them.
and so on
Measurable benefits... On what yardstick?
I guess there is no carbon offset necessary for GENESIS teachers as it is a clean green technology :-)
'nuf said!
Blessings
Mike
aka 'flyingkiwi'
You are persuading me!
Dear Mike,
Thanks for the comments - I do of course remember meeting you, I was meaning that if I had had more face to face discussions with people I would have asked these questions!
And you certainly answered them well. I think the power of being connected that you expressed so vividly is something perhaps I wish we had experienced. I don't think it is schools that need this - I think I have always experienced a need for senior leadership to come and connect to us like this. It has got my brain ticking now - after all it is very possible to do these days for us here. Recently we held a Skype video conference in our staff meeting with some folks over in Wales. It was great fun and did connect us. Let's see what happens!
We really need more of this connectivity in YWAM I think.
Thank you Mike
Thank you Mike for responding. I was really hoping that you would input into this conversation.
Bill Hutchison
Reef to Outback
Building Family
It is so refreshing to read the posts in this forum. I frequently read other forums where it seems like people are more interesting in tearing each other apart than building together. May the Spirit in this place also affect others!
I once heard it said that the ultimate technology is the Holy Spirit. Much of the technological development really has a twist of "God-like" characteristics, i.e. bridging our shortcomings with what we are trying to accomplish. Kevin, I am sure by now you have been convinced that the underlying technology of GENESIS really is the Holy Spirit. We love to see the Word of God released in any event that we do, as I trust is the case with all other ministry we do as well.
GENESIS was born, like Mike said, as an initiative to help serve the multiplication of an ever-growing movement. There is also a special relationship between the GENESIS Ministry and the University of the Nations, where we have a strong call to serve in the multiplication of the education that takes place - a concept to teach all nations. Around this core you can expand the circle to include basically any creative ideas you would have that would serve in multiplying your ministry.
The choice of technology was driven by the concept and values that were laid in the foundation of the ministry. Being able to interact has always been a key aspect, which is clearly supported by the ability to talk together and see each other. 10 years ago there was not much technology available that would facilitate this in a large classroom setting, so h.320 (ISDN) based videoconferencing became the solution. Inclusion has also been a very significant aspect in the development, which means there had to be a standards-based solution. Even in the transition from ISDN-based connections to IP (h.323) based connections we have been careful to make sure that we have enough locations that can bridge between the two.
One responsibility that we also take seriously is also that we can provide a level of quality in what we do, i.e. that we also use equipment that will facilitate this. Quite a few of us are more than excited when we can explore new technologies in this area. We use Skype, MSN and other clients (anyone tried Sightspeed?), yet it still remains to see technology that integrates so well in various sizes of setups. Higher-end videoconferencing technology is also becoming more available. After all, you can buy 8-10 systems today for the price of one 10 years ago. The intensity of the development in this area is quite remarkable, really in the entire range of solutions. Everything from software clients that can be installed on a computer to high-definition equipment and the so-called telepresence solutions that are being developed around the world. We still believe that God makes technology available for his people and for his kingdom, not for the world.
Yet, transcending all of this, Bill and Mike have said it so well, it is still about bringing people together and make space for God to move. The stories draw the point the best. Our friends in Venezuela stayed up from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. so they could hear Loren speak. Our friends in India got up bright and early so that Derek C. could teach in the humanities course while in Kona. The One Voice worship events where prophetic words have been exchanged among nations and strengthened unity and faith. There is a hunger among the nations to be connected together, and whether that be under the GENESIS label or any other label, I believe we are all after the same purpose; to see the knowledge of the glory of God covering the earth.
Around 55 locations are currently a part of this growing family, spread all around the world, giving people a voice among the nations. Some of the most recent additions are places like Fiji, the Philippines, and Porto Velo in the Amazon region. We are thrilled to know that they have a new way of staying connected.
I was privileged to participate in the last CRIT in India this year, and realized that God is continuing to bring together the parts of our mission so that synergy can take place. We have so much to learn from one another, and I realize that I need the other parts of the mission to move forward. Through our working together the family is being built stronger for the task that is ahead. In this mix it is also helpful that we give good definition to who we are and how we can serve as well.
Thank you for asking the question Kevin! Through it I trust you have brought us all closer together!
Sindre
Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty
Bringing community
I have been enjoying this discussion very much. Thanks for all the input and you may have a 56th location join the GENESIS network one day soon!
I have been thinking about this all week and so I thought it would be good to express what I have been thinking about. It seems to me from all the discussions above that the chief benefit of this is the sense of community it brings. The togetherness and the ability to share and help each other as we work together in the task God has called us too.
As I think about this further though I think that GENESIS needs to urgently break out of the class room and into the general life of our mission. The benefits it brings are often invested in our students (who in the case of DTS students, 75% of whom leave the mission after the school) are clear. So when we find ourselves in a time where we need to respond to the call to "heal our nervous system" surely this requires and urgent look at multiplying the benefits of GENESIS to the mission as a whole? I mean maybe this is happening but I can't see it yet.
I also wonder if the GENESIS team are responding to the fact that videoconferencing as a technology is now a freely available commodity? That is to say YWAMers like myself and many more are already using it, sometimes daily. We are also (by default and in some ways short-sightedly) using proprietary systems like Skype rather than benefit from the wisdom of the GENESIS standards compliant ways. I think we need some leadership into the mission from the GENESIS team. It might require packaging up the principles and experience gained as a sort of GENESIS-lite package to easily give away to leaders in the mission in order to equip them to make use of the cheap and everyday ways of video-conferencing. (I use a 14 euro webcam and at 10 euro mic and heatset bought from a supermarket)
Anyway these are just some thoughts. I think we urgently need to look at all ways of creating community in YWAM. We have had some: lots of conferences, IY Mag, Global Perspectives, Letters from the Chairman. YWAM-announce. Very high quality but often very infrequent too (and not co-ordinated much). We now can use many more low cost and quick technologies such as Radio programmes as podcasts, video-podcasts, magazines distributed as pdfs, syndicated news (aggregations of blogs etc), Internet Relay Chat (or Instant Messaging Chat with multiple people), free tele-conferences with Skype and other technologies, blog sites and forums like this one, wiki's, groupware software... The list keeps on growing
Of course I don't wish to be tied to my computer all day, but neither do I wish to be alone in YWAM anymore or to have to spend endless hours on airplanes for short meetings that take me away from my work for a long time!
Cheers,
Kevin
Technology serving the Kingdom
You have got some great thoughts going there, Kevin! And inspiring!
Your closing sentence made me realize that we all seem to live with technology that we are tied to - and technology that is tied to us. Sometimes we serve technology and other times technology serves us. Who is the master? Most of us carry around portable devices that we have learned to master, and that serve us greatly. It seems like this development is just gaining momentum, and one day we will have all the things that tie us down at our fingertips wherever we are. I don't know if we will be walking around with virtual screens in front of our eyes, and a camera dangling before us constantly, but someone will probably try that too.
Okay, enough about that.
I firmly believe you are right about the benefits that GENESIS can give to the sense of community. And as you say, ministries and technologies of a broad variety can be used for this is well. There is definitely a great need for continued penetration in the understanding and the use of GENESIS. In a proper journey of integrating GENESIS with a ministry, we always ask the leadership/staff about what existing ministry expressions they have and how it can be multiplied through the use of this concept. So it is not intended to impose a new ministry expression as such, but rather multiply what God has already spoken to them/you. This is why it is so important for us that ministry leadership clearly understands and owns the vision of GENESIS.
We also firmly believe that having a person or a team that understands well how to integrate GENESIS, and that can also serve as a point person, both internally and externally, is a huge asset. The best way to gain this understanding is through a GENESIS seminar or the GENESIS school.
Having this as a foundation I believe it will be quite easy to break out of the classroom. And you will also find that these locations around the world that do have this understanding use GENESIS far beyond the traditional classroom. Every week people meet for leadership meetings, prayer meetings, worship, friendship and much more. Specific applications such as the UofN workshop preparations, UofN advisory board meetings, GLT meetings, groundwork for the GAA, including locations like what happened in Herrnhut and other things happen all the time. Mike and I sometimes just meet to catch up and touch base and stay involved. It is also funny to see how we frequently start out a conversation on Skype, but if we are both close to our videoconferencing system, we quickly move over. Somehow it just gives a much better sense of connection relationally.
GENESIS is not the answer to everything, but we continue to promote the ministry and trust that God will speak to the ones that are ready. We are prepared to serve their development and help integrate the concept locally. We cannot push these things on people, and not everybody is an innovator or early adapter, even in a mission like YWAM.
I think most of us are aware that H.323 clients are now freely available. The big issue that we have with this is that most of the users are not primarily tech people, and they need a plug-and-play solution, which these clients are not at this stage. We are then talking about issues like firewall blocking, port forwarding for dial in, bandwidth needed for good quality, support when they move around on different types of networks with different types of security, and all the things that have not yet been resolved in mobile stand-alone clients. There are centralized solutions available, but that just doesn't seem to be the word that brings good connotations among us.
We need people that are researching and trying out the solutions, but we also know that for the general public we need something that has been tested and tried and that can serve the general audience for the purpose that we have. Maybe you can help us with this!
This is a very healthy and good discussion about very relevant aspects of our ministry. As YWAM continues to move forward, to have a global vision where all parts of the body are connected, I believe we will see many more expressions that promote unity and communication. We know that we are still dealing with the hurt and the pains of the past, but God is dealing with this, and bringing us together.
Sindre
Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty